Curse

GloryFox · Jun 13, 2007, 01:53 AM // 01:53

I only want to discuss one change in the DEV update.

Quote:

posted by Gaile Gray

We added a cap of +25 to the armor buff when stacking skills. A single skill can still bring the bonus over +25, but multiple skills with smaller bonuses will not do so. Armor bonuses from shields, weapons, insignias and inscriptions are not affected and still stack.

How will the Armor de-stack update affect your ability to beat some missions such as DoA and RoT in Hard Mode? Will the standard DoA team build be possible anymore with the OF Tank build null and void?

I can think of a few Tactics builds I use. Combinations that have Watch Yourself, Shields Up, Disciplined Stance, Stand your Ground and Dolyak Signet just to name a few skills will no longer be viable stack options anymore.

Was Armor stacking that abusive in PvP and GvG?

Puebert · Jun 13, 2007, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Its meant to make DoA harder? (I really hope not)

I am not a PvP player, so I don't think I can offer a great view of PvP, but I don't imagine it's very helpful in PvP, because it takes so long to get your armor up that high, and obviously the other team would switch targets.

They better make DoA easier then (which I don't think they needed to anyway, but with this they will)

Evilsod · Jun 13, 2007, 01:58 AM // 01:58

What? DoA actually been hard?!? We can't have that! Those 'elite' PvEers in there might actually have to work for there next FoW armour as they rake in the next batch of Titan Gemstones.

I really can't see how it will make that much of a difference. Stoneflesh isn't armour, bonds aren't armour.

At a wild guess with regards to PvP usage, it was probably down to Paraway again chaining Stand your ground and perma Watch Yourself.

Puebert · Jun 13, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

I thought DoA was just fine before.

(I wish some areas didn't take as long as they do, but thats okay)

Well, Dolyak and Armor of Earth were kinda needed for the OF tank.

ShadowStorm · Jun 13, 2007, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Like I posted in the Dev Update Thread, this cap to armor buffs at 25 is retarded. It was included to reduce the effectiveness of Earth Ele Tanks in PVP but it breaks way more skills than it fixes.

My last remaining Paragon build is now ruined and one of my favorite Warrior team pve builds is now broken as well. Thanks Anet for fixing something that wasn't broken. Can you please, please, please go just one skill update without forcing me to find a new build for my Paragon? Please? I play primarily PvE and I don't deserve this kind of abuse.

VitisVinifera · Jun 13, 2007, 02:48 AM // 02:48

this is very typical of anet: they go into obs mode and look at whatever is the flavor-of-the-week, and nerf it, not realizing that these skills are not only useful but very much needed in totally different aspects of the game (ie, high-end pve)

GloryFox · Jun 13, 2007, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

posted by Ninjutsu Honor Code
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0167280&page=4

25 armor cap why god why is dolyak sig the only + armor skill for wars or something might aswell completely remove watch yourself and stand your ground cause if someone brings a skill that adds him some armor their plain useless say remove all armor bonuses a skill can give cause this is retarded. The loot scaling nerf already pissed me off but giving the team armor bonuses was something id actually enjoyed doing in gw or working on builds that gave the entire team armor bonuses how on earth are you gonna tank something in hard mode with +43 armor max if your stupid enough to have 16 strength, or just make feigned neutrality have no drawbacks and no recharge cause this is just insane heres a list of skills that cannot be used in combination anymore for armor bonuses suggest you remove them from the game and keep the highest boost ones:

1. Defy Pain
2. Dolyak Signet
3. "Shields Up!"
4. "Watch Yourself!"
5. Defensive Stance
6. Disciplined Stance
7. Fertile Season
8. Otyugh's Cry
9. Dryder's Defenses
10. Convert Hexes
11. Shield of Deflection
12. Shield of Regeneration
13. Elemental Resistance
14. Physical Resistance
15. Armor of Earth
16. Kinetic Armor
17. Obsidian Flesh
18. Ward Against Elements
19. Armor of Frost
20. Armor of Mist
21. Frigid Armor
22. Ward Against Harm
23. Feigned Neutrality
24. Mighty Was Vorizun
25. Protective Was Kaolai
26. Resilient Weapon
27. Tranquil Was Tanasen
28. "Stand Your Ground!"
29. Bladeturn Refrain
30. Conviction
31. Avatar of Balthazar

just 30 skills we cant combine anymore if your thinking anyone is gonna take a +10 or +24 over a skill that give over +30 you must be hit by a train why dont you just say we dont like the fact people can prevent damage by getting more then 100 armor well it wouldnt be necesairy if a monster can kill a unprotected squishy in 2 or 1 hits griefers in ra are lame true but you cant be possibly nerfing armor skills for that the fact that someone has a obsidian tank or terra tank would mean he or she is virtually hard to take down true but their enchants if its so depressing in doa then give them chillblians or something. The best thing is that they implemented this nerf just when i adapted to the lootscaling nerf. That was by means of farming with 8 actual people in uw wich was fun and daring thanks to the combo of shouts my monks had +48 armor wich meant aatxes wouldnt kill em in one hit anymore if we were too slow and one slipped through our defense. As i see it theres only two options anet one leave armor skills alone. two make frenzy elite " you attack 33% faster and take only half damage from attacks cost 1 adrenaline and buff mending to you cant be targeted by enemy spells +3...6 regen and you gain 25...50 armor. your choice xD

This was one of the better posts on the subject in the Dev update so I added it here.

Dear ANET you seriously need to rethink this change.

PvP kills the PvE star again.. Not a rant against PvP just a fact of life.

Kool Pajamas · Jun 13, 2007, 02:58 AM // 02:58

I'm pretty sure that was meant to take out paragon chant/shouts.

From all the complaints I think they'll end up taking this out or modding it.

I think maybe they should change it to just shouts/chants since they cant be removed like enchants can. Or to reword it, instead of shout/chant, any non removable skills. Dont let those stack. Enchants are ok imo.

Racthoh · Jun 13, 2007, 02:58 AM // 02:58

I don't understand why they couldn't just up the adrenaline on Watch Yourself! or give it like a 5 second recharge to avoid the constant uptime. Either that or... those terratanks? Balance changes are made because of RA griefers now?

bhavv · Jun 13, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

I suggested a simple suggestion that was to nerf stand your ground to 18 ar and watch yourself by -2 or so per rank. Even better, make the armor gain from Stand your ground scale like it does for watch yourself.

I dont think any other armor gain skills were 'abused' in PVP. RA and AB dont count.

VitisVinifera · Jun 13, 2007, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I don't understand why they couldn't just up the adrenaline on Watch Yourself! or give it like a 5 second recharge to avoid the constant uptime. Either that or... those terratanks? Balance changes are made because of RA griefers now?

apparently so -- since obs mode is so easy to see what's currently en vogue in any pvp arena, the nerfs follow.

And Anet has sunk to another low in terms of trying to engineer a metagame: instituting hard caps/ceilings on things like armor boosts and soul reaping, rather than adjusting skills in terms of amount/duration/energy or adren cost, etc. Getting very lazy.

Miral · Jun 13, 2007, 03:22 AM // 03:22

I think its a good change, they just need to tweak some mobs' damage to compensate a bit in balanced teams

Winterclaw · Jun 13, 2007, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Another move by anet that makes me wonder what is going on over there.

Gaia_Hunter · Jun 13, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Another move by anet that makes me wonder what is going on over there.

Its something like:

guy #1-"Ppl are still complaining that farmers get things faster than non-farmers."

guy #2-" Those armor buffs in PvP make games really last long and getting boring."

guy #3-"Brilliant idea!!!! Why not cap AL, say its because PvP (and we arent lying) and make farming/elite area farming harder, so we level the community more?!"

lyra_song · Jun 13, 2007, 03:36 AM // 03:36

IAS is capped
regen is capped (with spillover)
Degen is capped (with spillover)

now armor buffs are capped.

anyone remember if inscreased movement speed is capped...i cant quite remember.

While i think +25 is friggin low for a cap, i think a hard cap isnt too unreasonable, given that other mechanics are capped already.

Hikan Trilear · Jun 13, 2007, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

IAS is capped
regen is capped (with spillover)
Degen is capped (with spillover)

now armor buffs are capped.

anyone remember if inscreased movement speed is capped...i cant quite remember.

While i think +25 is friggin low for a cap, i think a hard cap isnt too unreasonable, given that other mechanics are capped already.

Increased movement is capped at 33% I think.

Lothlorian Sassun · Jun 13, 2007, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Yeah the Armor Stacking Nerf makes NO SINCE whatsoever. ANET is out to Kill Solo Farming. Gaile always says this is not true but truth is in action. And the only thing I see coming down the Nerf Wagon are Nerf's to solo farming.

Stealthc · Jun 13, 2007, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Movement Snares are also capped (at 50% I think)

Darksun · Jun 13, 2007, 03:45 AM // 03:45

The armor cap IS pretty silly, especially for War & Par trying to protect their team. But most of the changes are great.

I think decreased movement should be capped at 66%. The 90% slower is insane.

Winterclaw · Jun 13, 2007, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Why doesn't anet just go ahead and make it impossible to leave a town without a full party already?